And if you are not willing to as an organism, or as an organization say, We messed up. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. Youve youve created a fiction when you organize church, what is a church organization but a legal fiction, right? Let the Briscoes help you experience Life in all its fullness! Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. Its designed to be fought asymmetrically. You feel that they have to have more of a governance more of a hands on role than a lot of them do. I totally agree with you Julie on how I viewed the Clergy and Church growing up. I wonder, I wonder what effect that might have had on them. I know about the deleted emails. Thank God I have Jesus. How do you recommend searching worth while places to donate too? The Elder Board has accepted Petes decision, and his resignation is effective March 31, 2019. And I can only imagine what the economic forces are behind the scenes for that, but it really disappoints me, that that hasnt happened. So I was quite taken aback when this scandal came out. Like so many of you, I love Pete. I would love to see Chicago experience revival. One of those is that you had your senior pastor resign kind of suddenly. And Ive been a critic of megachurch multi-site model. And so I hope your listeners understand what I mean, when I say this, thats how good God is that he can use people who are even morally bankrupt, to bring people to himself. And the thing that is astonishing to me, you used the issue of emotional vulnerability is that, you know, a lot of times our strengths are our weaknesses. He represented two women involved in the sex abuse scandal involving Bill Hybels. Yes, I have be disillusioned many times by churches and some leaders. Its M-I-L-G-R-A-M the Milgram experiment, but basically American researchers were trying to figure out after World War II, why so many in German society were willing to go along with the Nazis or go along with their leadership, do incalculably horrible things to people. I was kind of thrust into the middle of it out of love for wanting to help my friends and man, that thing escalated pretty quickly. And which really makes me sad because theyve had a change in leadership. I dont know the answer but rampant clergy abuse just took my discontentment to a whole new level. Talk to me about how you saw this playing out at Willow Creek. Its a serious analog for what happened at Willow. and so I almost feel like the elder boards are there to keep the honest person honest. Powerful ministry at some points. He has been married to Jill for more than 59 years and has three children and 13 grandchildren. Yes, I would view it far differently today. Pete served as the senior pastor at Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Dallas, Texas for nearly 30 years, and he now ministers to pastors and organizational executives through personalized, professional coaching. It is. Hes a complex character. The church is nondenominational and has woman pastors and elders. There are therapy notes to support her story. So there were more than 10 women that came forward and said that there was sexual misconduct by Bill Hybels. And theres an element to which a church like Willow Creek was a global church, right? So, and youre the chairman of your board. They know there would be swift and sure discipline, if not firing, even with one mistakedepending on the severity of the misbehavior. He is with us today to talk about growing communication skills to improve preaching as well as how we can find deeper fulfillment in our work and lives. It grows over time. God showed him through that sermon how his trip was actually isolating and began a process of transformation. The woman had come forwarded, but then later recanted her story. And that that was something that taught you an awful lot about how elder board should deal with sexual impropriety or sexual abuse within their own walls. So if you think of Willow as being a living thing, we are willing to put other things to death on the altar of preserving that organism. Let me give you some examples. And it turns out there were a lot more women who had been affected by Bill Hybels. Julie, it is great to be with you again. I think youre absolutely right about that. And another womans situation, theyre in an elder board meeting, and Bill Hybels, you know, has his hand on a womans leg, and no one else can see. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. I think these women would still like to know the answer to that. Its not okay. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. But then its my understanding too, that when these women met with the elders, the level of bullying and abuse that they were subjected to, was such that I know Vonda told me there were elders in tears at the end of this, of how pervasive the abuse was, I dont know how specific you can be but can you give people an idea of, of what actually happened to these women that were abused? Amen. I want to thank Pete too for advocating for women participating fully in leadership and for Libby modeling what it means to be a true helper (ezer kenegdo). But theres a sense that the Church of Jesus Christ Universal is represented all throughout not just the United States but the world. which Hybels assented to including you know, repenting for his behavior and not talking about politics and some other things as well. So you caught them before that anything actually happened? I appreciate you so much and look forward to visiting with you again soon. But so far, I havent seen that. Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. Now, God is leading our friend and leader Pete away from these walls, and we look on with sadness the sadness that comes when a season you love is passing. And I feel that way with these pastors. However, there should be a bubble level of character in Christ that we return to. Friends are important! It was stunning to me. But heres what happened when Scot criticized them publicly. Stuart and Jill Briscoe have always had a passion for teaching God's Word and speaking Truth into people's hearts and moving them toward God. Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. Mitch has seen church governance from both the inside and the outside. And theyre born knowing how to do that. Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. Yes, in the course of representing these women, it became obvious that this was not what Ill call an echelon or tier leadership problem, just at Bill Hybels level. You know, when you have somebody like Bryan Loritts, who when hes talking about why when he was at a former church, he didnt disclose to the church that they had a sexual predator among them for six months. Okay. Tell us what you learned through you know, bringing this person to light, confronting him and dealing with the entire situation that we can learn from as a church. In context, I think my meaning becomes clear as I say soon after, agreeing with Mitchs assessment that unanimity is bad: Absolutely horrible. And really, I came back to the Lord at Willow and He used that church to help me reestablish my relationship with Him and with His church. I mean, there were some things that you learned specifically, that were done to potentially cover wrongdoing by Bill Hybels. Literally thousands of people have come to know Jesus under Bill Hybels teaching and yet, he was morally bankrupt at the same time. Yeah, they eventually did. Julie, you may want to review this pointwasnt a problem? If you go back and you look at Bill Hybels books in retrospect, Im amazed at some of the things that are contained in his books that people became okay with. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. For the next 90 minutes, Pete Briscoe enraptured us with his presentation of The Bema. I was blown away. Everything started to make sense. Well, lets talk a little bit about the leadership that protected him because I think that is the question that I keep hearing over and over from folks is, How do we prevent this from happening? But if you have a pastor with a glaring character flaw youre fooling yourself if you think youre gonna keep that character flaw in line with a pastor who doesnt put Jesus Christ first in his life, am I right? Jesus said, I call you My friend. And Im good friends with her husband Scott Dyer as well. Because I often wonder what would have happened if he had come back and you know, not been well are not been really able to do his job but said, You know what, Ive got to do this. This is the you know, erither, I need the job, or, This ministry completes me. or whatever, whatever the excuse is. Not so much at Willow till after, because I was so wrapped up in the Harvest stuff at that time and the Moody stuff that I didnt really have the capability or the bandwidth to do much reporting about Willow. The cover up of his behavior manifested at the elder board level. David Jankowski. Absolutely horrible. Yeah, yeah, I think I think thats a good word to Julie. When I came onto our board, the terms that Pete Briscoe used were, guide, govern and guard. And I think policy governance has the governing part. And wasnt there something with Bill Clinton coming to the church and speaking? Theyre not holding anybody accountable then. The priests who cross the street, right? Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. Correct? He gave me a few new friends here and there, people to pray with, to share with, to be coworkers in some small ministry, etc. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. They have a responsibility to the larger church to speak. Interestingly enough, during the interview, he seemed extremely angry and resentful. And thats not what this is about. Fortunately, we have not had so much as one complaint about any one of our pastors or staff members. And I think that Bill Hybels created an advocacy structure around him by having that many lawyers on the board. Posted by Jonathan Deatherage on Apr 02, 2019. ) So, Willows pride did not allow them to see any flaws in their leadership, especially their premier leader. So thank you. When you think about the economic reach of an organization that was that size within evangelicalism, my goodness, even Christianity Today was scared to run articles about it. Those are the good guys. And the people in this story are complex characters. So when you have someone who is trusted, whos supposed to be an expert, you know, like a pastor, like a longtime senior pastor whos supposed to be a theological expert, and someone whos in authority like a senior pastor, people are willing to do things to satisfy that person that they would not otherwise do, even if those things seem harmful to another person. But youre right. That was my upbringing. I think its Pat Baranowskis story that ran in the New York Times that actually caused that. I think it took courage. So Im very much looking forward to our time together today. Through Petes teaching on Sundays and through various conversations with other staff members during the week, God shifted my perspective on what it means to live life in Christ one from my own efforts to please God to one of Christs efforts on my behalf to love me deeply, extravagantly, and permanently. I thought that emails could always be recovered, even after being erased, by a good IT person. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. But essentially, it was the board being asked to deal with matters of policy and then all matters of implementation really get left to the vocational staff in the church. A man who "dedicated his life to sharing Gods Word with the world" has died at the age of 91. Scott Dyer was the worship pastor at Bent Tree Bible fellowship. Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. And not elevated above it. Its my understanding that was a watershed moment. We see this is the third article this month youve found worth reading. As a lawyer whos represented some of Bill Hybels victims, Mitch Little has seen a side of Willow Creek that few others have. Yeah. There was a period of time, Ill call, The Great Loneliness after that Chicago Tribune article came out, where they were radioactive. But I guess this is the question so many are asking is, Can anybody be in those kind of jobs with the kind of responsibility that is put on one human, one person to lead thousands of people? And so many looking to him for vision for leadership for everything. Theres a lot of church boards that operate that way. And these men are good actors. Senior pastors dont need advocates. This is just the way things are in Corinth. Well, and that is one aspect of the story that I wanted to explore together because I know that what happened at Willow from my understanding of speaking with Vonda and several victims is that it was far worse, the abuse there and far more pervasive than most people know, and thats one of the frustrations I know of a lot of the victims is that Willow hasnt publicly acknowledged that or publicly said how bad it was. The news of Petes resignation landed heavy on my heart. It involves a level of compartmentalization that is truly stunning. Now youre a lawyer. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. And Willow just, they got killed because they wouldnt respond and say the truth. But what happens when there is a sheep within the flock who needs to be defended? And theres a lot of people asking, Is that just too great a burden to ever put on one person? How do you respond to that? We were fighting asymmetric warfare, right? And I think there is a healthy fear. In the early 2000s, as Stuart and Jill transitioned into minister-at-large roles and spent more time traveling to serve the global church, an additional voice was added in order to bless the supporters ofTelling the Truth. Well, I tried other churches and its more of the same. This is simply a place where I share the message of Gods unadulterated grace through my preaching sermons and bible teaching. They need accountability. But I had limited contact with him. You know, Willow creeks pastors family members benefit from the Penumbra of Willow Creek and its just sheer size within evangelicalism. He was running and we were praying that he would surrender fully to God. So Mitch has a very unique perspective. And I had a wonderful experience. and Im going to butcher the title. So when you have a culture thats willing to, you know, exfoliate spoiliate, destroy documents in order to preserve a narrative, theres really very little that the culture will not accomplish at the cost of innocent people. I know the owners Dan and Kurt Marquart personally, and I can say without reservation that they truly run their business with honesty, integrity and transparency. Im so glad that theyre godly men like you serving. And a lot of us who sat in the congregation and received from them were, you know, duped and we bought it. We needed to go to the hills and fight as guerillas, you know, what is guerrilla warfare? So many people are looking the other way. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. Thats not to say there arent authentic people there. Please contact us or click here to learn more about how to enable JavaScript on your browser. I am with you in this sad place of justified disappointment in the church. And they were no friends of ours during the Harvest investigation either. Because we represent their interests. How does our elder board navigate things differently with that Pastor? And you mentioned to me that there were some stop signs along the way. All the times something didnt seem right. Thats a rhetorical question. They didnt have the ability to respond to new issues as they arose. Glad that Jesus is still our anchor! And I remember you saying once that you had gotten a manual, I think it was from the ECFA, and boy, we could talk about them. They were almost sacred and benevolent and unable to do wrong. Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. Because they were required to move by unanimity. Im wary of the theatrical, evangelical stars that are so prevalent now. The news of Petes resignation landed heavy on my heart. https://www.billionbibles.com/voice-of-the-martyrs.html. Hes also a strong believer and advocate for abuse victims. He currently leads a multi-faceted media ministry called Telling the Truth which he shares with his parents Stuart and Jill Briscoe. Pete grew up in a home with intelligent and committed parents: both Nobody has said they had intercourse with Bill. In our church, we have a no tolerance policy. To us, he was Stu, Dad and Poppa and we already miss him achingly." Vanilla orchids are actually pollinated by hand in most places. I appreciate your feedback. Bill Hybels and Bill Clinton, you know, developed a friendship over the years that at least what Ive discovered in my research, there was an invitation for Clinton to come and speak at the Global Leadership Summit, and a confrontation with the elder board about that because Clinton was on the heels of an adultery scandal. Jill It is simply to feed ourselves. So as we part ways, let us make the departure sweet. Its all a Business and Power tool and stage for Virtue Signaling. That nonprofit corporation and its bank accounts, thats not what the biblical church is. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. They made a lot of friends. Im so grateful now for that heritage. And so, you know, as a lawyer on the board, youre not absolved from the obligation of complying with the mandates of Scripture. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. Yeah, apparently its not going to happen. I learned that from Bill. It grows on the vanilla orchid, and it only grows in really exotic places like Tahiti, and there are some places in Mexico it grows too, but what is unique about the vanilla orchid is when it blooms, its got to be pollinated within one day. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. It is a collection of people that we are to care for. There was another documented case where he had oral sex with his assistant back in the 90s at WC. So grateful for those who did and Scot McKnight who came out with a just a powerful, I remember when his blog hit and he said, Every elder has to resign. And within what, wasnt it a week, all of them resigned. The church said in essence, Tsk, tsk. Is that correct? Its good to be visiting with you again. Yet Mitch isnt just the lawyer whos seen megachurches as an outsider bringing accountability. Inside their system, they need to be guarded, governed, guided. WebSince that time he has ministered on every continent, written more than 40 books, pastored a church for 30 years, and founded a media ministry called Telling the Truth which now broadcasts daily worldwide. Well, early on in the process after the Tribune article, we had to make a decision, How are we going to fight a machine of this size that is basically promulgating lies about these women and their families and their supporters? And I reached out to people that I already knew within, you know, the watch blogging community. Mike is a dear friend and Im sad this day has come. Petes teaching and emphasis on the sufficiency of Christ leaves an indelible mark on so many of our souls. And Harvest was the same thing. So, Mitch, how is it that a lawyer from Texas ended up representing victims of sexual harassment at a mega church in Chicago? And I really was hopeful that there was going to be a public apology, and yet, None. Well, since you brought it up, youre gonna youre gonna have to address the Vanilla Bean. It is a collection of people. Do you understand what Im saying? God is doing a new work both in the lives of the Briscoe's and in the life of Bent Tree. With distinctly different teaching styles, you'll be moved by the emotional appeal of Jill and the compelling logic of Stuart, as they boldly proclaim God's sovereignty, grace, and love. Yeah. But it really had the tone has to be set by leadership for a culture of goodness. What Ive told people is, If you are not ready to blow yourself or the organization up in five seconds flat, you need to find a different hobby.. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to say there arent authentic people there just too a. 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